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About to print my first 3D STL guide using formlabs 2. I have imported it and extruded it using videos that Mike posted to be able to print vertically. I noticed that when I imported the file into preform, even before extruding (so the original .stl given by lab), that this warning popped up - "Some loaded models are damaged and need repair." Should I ask preform to repair or to leave it alone? And what does this mean? Thanks for information.


It will add a weird little base to it. Print both ways at the same time and see how it turns out


Preform says this from time to time.  I always hit repair and have never noticed that it does anything.


Great, thank you both. Good idea!


Another 3D print question- Daniel you might have the answer ?  We have been doing itero scans for ortho long time. Started so could invisalign when Cerec did not work.  We  are getting the Cerec  stl license.  We have the Form2 printer and have been printing models, but we are having an issue with Itero and their scans/stl file. They want us to pay huge license fee to get the stl files here or become lab to get the files in another way. How do we get what we have already scanned and have a file just need be able to use and print it?  We haved used exceed to get aligners STL files etc but just a straight simple retainer or NG we want to print


On 7/10/2017 at 7:30 am, Will Jones said...

About to print my first 3D STL guide using formlabs 2. I have imported it and extruded it using videos that Mike posted to be able to print vertically. I noticed that when I imported the file into preform, even before extruding (so the original .stl given by lab), that this warning popped up - "Some loaded models are damaged and need repair." Should I ask preform to repair or to leave it alone? And what does this mean? Thanks for information.

Are you using the inspector in meshmixer??? Usually that means that there's missing data to be filled in the mesh. The repair option usually takes care of it. 


Sorry Dave, no idea about Itero.  Javier, I've found even after fixing holes with inspector in Meshmixer, you can still get that repair model in Preform.  I say if it wants to fix it, go aheadhappy


Most all of the 3D printing CAD programs borrow the Repair function from NetFab. Or, I should say that the license it from them. Anyway, VERY common to get this error. And as Dan mentioned, it even occurs after inspecting on MM. Just approve the repair and review the model quickly on Preform. I'm yet to have a 'fix' that screwed something up. It's possible, but unlikely.


And another question -

 

I have  cancelled the print once now because after a few hundred layers, there was nothing there (also, the light wasnt lighting up underneath the base). It keeps going through layers and nothing is being built. I restarted it and it's doing the same thing. 

I pulled out the build platform and looked very closely. There is no resin cured at all. And no light was ever turned on like it was when i was making animals with grey resin. Any thoughts on what to do? Thanks.


Printing vertically can be tricky. If you don't get a completely flat base, the print will fail. If you want to be sure it prints ok, at least until you have a bit more practice, orient the model at an angle and have the software create supports. 


This is the safest way to print, just not the most efficient. 

 


At first go basic

Angle it a little then have supports generated


Angled will definitely give you a little more accurace IMO... but it takes a lot longer.  Also the resin will determine how long it will take.  This print is going right now and is going to take around 11 hours...


Will, could you show us a screenshot of your build? Of even better yet, would you mind sharing the .form file? Then I can load it and help troubleshoot.


On 7/10/2017 at 2:45 pm, Mike Skramstad said...

Angled will definitely give you a little more accurace IMO... but it takes a lot longer.  Also the resin will determine how long it will take.  This print is going right now and is going to take around 11 hours...

Mike, 

Could you or whoever clarify when you would use which orientation? Angled is more accurate, vertical is more economical, but when would you use which application?
​Models for aligners? Models for other appliances? Surgical guides? 

Thanks


Diving into 3D printing today and watching videos, and I know it's just the tip of the iceberg.  Sorry for the basic questions right now:

1) Vertical printing saves resin...is there an estimate on time savings? 20%...30%?  Obviously I can squeeze a lot more models in to print but is there a limit when accuracy becomes a problem?

2) Is there a minimum resolution that I should be printing at?  

3) Skramy mentions that printing vertically may not a little less accurate?  Clinical relevancy for this or just an anecdotal observation?  

4) Meshmixer is a little slow and buggy, but Baron and others mention NetFabb.  What are the benefits if any of this program or should I stick with MM?

5) In the CDocs Videos about 3D printing, Mike talks about using InLab 16 to add bases.  Can Premium software do this?  Any negatives to adding the software to the CEREC or just stick with Chairside and use Meshmixer?

Thanks!

Dan

 


Dan

I've been using Form2 over a year and brainstorming with other users. These are my personal opinions:

1) For SG and ortho models, no problems regarding accuracy. For a die model, yes, it could be a problem. I would recommend to print angled to minimize the failure. The failure could cost you more. 

2) 100μm for SG and ortho, (although no option for SG resin at 100μm at this moment...) Not much clinical benefit to print at 50μm for these purposes.

3) The layer lines could be more noticeable depending on the orientation and location of the teeth. Not clinically significant for SG and ortho IMO. Again, angled print recommended.

4) I use many mesh editing/3D modeling software. MM is the most user friendly free software IMO. I would stick with MM. However Autodesk has been shutting down their free apps recently. MM could be a paid program in future. I hope not....

5) Now that STL export is possible from CS, no reason to stay with Cerec suites. It takes only a minute to add bases with MM. Also BSP can do that with just one click. 

hiroshi


Thanks Hiroshi-
The only thing that I will add is that we as CEREC users need a proper model building software. Meshmixer of course works fine and is easy for certain applications... but I would like to see a more comprehensive solution


Thanks!!!


Mike...download the Premium Software? Is it worth it?


4.4 premium? 4.5 still in Beta.
What do you want to use it for


Easier way to put bases on models for 3D printing like you described for InLab 16. This is for Kris's machines so I'm trying to streamline her workflow for her office team to image and print so they can get away from impression materials.


Dan,

I don't think you can add bases in the premium software.  Easiest way is to scan in ortho software and put a base on in that software, but the real advantage of ortho is to be able to print articulated models.  This print took 9 hours and used a ton of resin.  Honestly, Meshmixer only takes a minute to add a base and really isn't buggy at all for this.  If you want a quick model, at 100 microns, you could probably get the print time down to a little over an hour.

 


I agree with Michael, it would be really nice to have some dental model specific software. I appreciate your help and video on how to use Meshmixer to build a base for the model. We did our first couple cases this week with 4.5 and exported our own stl into Formlabs2. My assistant Meghann followed your video and got a very nice model with a base on it. Pretty cool stuff!


How do we convert the CEREC scan to an STL file?  Infinident? 


On 7/16/2017 at 3:43 pm, John Lee said...

How do we convert the CEREC scan to an STL file?  Infinident? 

 

Once you go online with 4.5 you can request a STL export license from PTC. With this license you can export models from chairside or cerec Ortho


Peter, I called PTC... they told me that they will not release 4.5 until later. They will release it in batches... unless you are a mentor. So, until then... is there another route to convert the file to a STL?


John,

So far, I have been sending to AA dental.  He charges me 20 bucks per conversion...


Daniel,
How do you get this type of articulated model? This would really help me in missing posterior cases. Thanks.


Will. You will have to either build an articulaor in mesh mixer or there are a few that can be purchased. So far I would say that the ines I have printed have been flimsy. I am going to try to print in a different material and see if it works out better. For full arches I do not have confidence in the plastic articulaors but that doesn't mean you can't print and mount on a real articulator


Peter,
Yea I was wondering if the articulator that Dan built was decent enough to show the lab a general overview. That is my goal. I have a few bilateral posterior missing teeth cases that are full all-on-x implant immediate load cases that I wanted the lab to see a general overview of his bite. i was hoping this articulator was decent enough to show them that. I will still be taking traditional impressions and bites.


I would consider this articulator similar to what the lab may send you back with a triple tray impression.  It can help hold the models together, but that's it.


That would be great. How do I mimic what you did Dan? Do I need to buy something?


Dan is going to make videos on this technique.


Will, I sent you a PM with the site to buy this articulator.  It's $10  and a lab guy designed it.  I'll be making a video soon on how to put this together in Meshmixer.  Another option is to print models and leave the supports on.  Then do a traditional bite and mount to a traditional articulator using the printed supports to lock in the plaster.  The printed articulator is just a quicker rough way to do it.


Thank you all!


Joseph,
Thank you for the information! Can you message me that lab phone number and website?


Has anyone put a price tag on this? Maybe a per articulated model cost to weigh out ROI. As a former engineer (a true card carrying geek) I'm getting very tempted to jump into the print world now even though I'm not using a bunch of printed models currently. I have a lab that will accept my Ortho scans and deliver articulated models for about $50. I've thought of getting ortho software and using a BioStar Mini thermoformer and doing my own aligners for simple cases. This would justify the printer a little more maybe, but just wondered if someone has a good feel for ongoing costs.


Here you go:

If you do implants, worth it for sure:


On 7/16/2017 at 5:58 pm, John Lee said... Peter, I called PTC... they told me that they will not release 4.5 until later. They will release it in batches... unless you are a mentor. So, until then... is there another route to convert the file to a STL?

John the East Coast is next after the Midwest rollout so it should be pretty soon.

 


Dan...

    Chomping at the bits.... Got my FormLabs 2 and stalling my HiOssen Implant patients from getting their crowns... 


On 7/18/2017 at 9:08 pm, John Lee said...

Dan...

    Chomping at the bits.... Got my FormLabs 2 and stalling my HiOssen Implant patients from getting their crowns... 

For the STL export from Chairside it is only for models. In order to have guides printed ( As Dan and Mike have shown) you will need a lab to convert your scans, do design of CG 2, then they will send the file back to you to print. This can be accomplished with 4.4 so there is no need to wait for 4.5

Frankie @ AA dental designs

and

Jay- Winter Spring Dental Lab

These are 2 good sources for this 


The stl from the print that I showed was from Sicat. Digital Guide. I like using this the most (even though a little more spendy) because you get a second set of eyes on your plan to minimize mistakes and I can use my surgical guide kits without the limitations of the CG2 hole size.


Mike,

What's the work flow when using SiCat's digital guide? and what do they charge?

Ari


Same as normal. Choose digital guide but do not send to Burbank... just request the .stl. Cost is $120


thanks


Here it is John,

http://www.aadentaldesign.com/

You will find their phone number.  Give them a call.  They will guide you to how set you up on the cerec connect.


Thanks!


On 7/18/2017 at 7:54 pm, Mike Skramstad said...

Here you go:

If you do implants, worth it for sure:

Are we supposed to wash and cure before or after removing supports? Does it matter?


I leave supports on until after washing and final cute. Material is some what soft immediately out of printer


I leave the supports on for guides until after final cure. On models, I remove them before final cure.


My first guide today using my Form 2. Impressed+. Printed a replica of a past case printed with Stratasys Eden printer by lab. The Form print was more accurate for insertion of the sleeves. Surprised and very happy with that.


Question about the 3D printing.  Once we have a STL file of an item and transfer that to Preform for printing.  Do we need to calibrate it any way so that the model is scaled correctly?  For my first print, I had sent a CEREC scanned file to Infinident labs to convert the dxd to stl.  Then, I imported it to Preform and the program "repaired" the file / design.  I had added the supports and printed it.  But... from the print, it looks smaller.  


The conversion should not cause a problem with size.


When you position your model in preform, be careful not to pull on the picture of an arrow. That will make the model bigger or smaller


I might have done that...


Dan,
Where did you get the 3D dental articulator? I saw your video and tried that link. It does not exist anymore.


Should have more info on when this will be available soon

These has advantages over the ones I have tried


 

https://sowl.co/OmN2n 

Try this link, it should work.  Looking forward to trying Pete's articulator.


Dan,
I've tried that site. For some reason, it keeps redirecting me to a PayPal site.

Pete,
That looks super nice. Where do you get those?


On 8/1/2017 at 5:31 pm, John Lee said... Dan, I've tried that site. For some reason, it keeps redirecting me to a PayPal site. Pete, That looks super nice. Where do you get those?

John

Should have an answer in the next few days


On 8/1/2017 at 5:31 pm, John Lee said... Dan, I've tried that site. For some reason, it keeps redirecting me to a PayPal site. Pete, That looks super nice. Where do you get those?

John, that's correct.  When you pay the $10, they send the link for the stl file.  I seemed strange to me too, but that's how it works...... I promise it's not my paypal sitebig grin